Talk:Eight Humans/@comment-35012101-20180316070223/@comment-33883848-20190306123445
@rafip "Except one time when Chara tried to kill several people in their hometown using their best friend for that: They were the one that wanted to... ... to use our full power. I was the one that resisted... I did the right thing. If I killed those humans... We would have had to wage war against all of humanity - Asriel. And all of this long before the Player showed up in Underground. " 1 They did because the village was full of jerks,after all they told asriel that the humanity is "lot of floweys'=",where do you think they got this view? 2 they attacked the villagers out of self defence after all monsters says that the villagers actually attacked asriel 3.Both "322 - 104 = 218 - that many monsters (about 66% of entire population) Chara exterminates when they erases this pointless world, and wants to move on to the next. I couldn't have done it better myself. " ya know,because they LITERALLY says that the world's destruction is the consequnece of your actions in the genocide run "it was you you pushed everything to its edge and led the world to its destruction butyou cannot accept it you think youre above consequneces" "you made your choice long you" and they ARENT trying to manipulate you to get your soul as they still blame you for the world's destruction even in the second geno ending ,the one where they already have your soul. They were thinking you were Killing to get enough power to erase the world but by decing to recreate the world you proved to them that you were Killing them all thinking you would have no consequnces for your awfull actions "My approach is like that beacuse Chara's situation back then was very clear. Yes, we do not know the reasons why they climbed Mt. Ebbot simultaneously feeling strong hate towards not a single person, not a group of people, not some community, but the entire humanity." they hated humanity like practically every single monster from the underground who are "hyped for the world's destruction"as undyne etc...and they have understable reasons so ,so what are charas motives for hating humanity?Considering what they told to asriel regarding humanity,the reasons are clearly not happy,this Reason is enough sensitive and personnal that they even refused to say so to asriel,which suggests thats quite big. "However, we do know Chara's deeds - after careful planning and preparations they successfully manipulated Asriel who is just a child, and because of that they gained access to power that has no counter only to try to use it to murder several people in their hometown. " nowi get ,the only Reason why you think chara is evil is because of your own specualtions right? "Face it, Chara has fallen beyond salvation. You can't save them. No one can. Power and revenge - this is what they wanted. Even trying to belittle bad things Chara has done by exaggerating the Player's conduct during Genocide can not and will not change it. " thats not up to you to judge but the game and in the game everyone can change as papyrus says as every character proved to you and you are the one beyond bsalvation because despite the fact that ialready proved to you how much your arguments were wrong, you still use them all over again:Flowey explictly says that chara found peace in the pacifist end "seems like everyone is happy monster have returned to the surafce and peace and harmony will rule across the land TAKE DEEP BREATH theres Nothing left to worry about(…)see you latter chara"face it and chara is a KID ,none of childreen can be beyond slvation espevially in the games like undertale "However, we do know Chara's deeds - after careful planning and preparations they successfully manipulated Asriel who is just a child, and because of that they gained access to power that has no counter only to try to use it to murder several people in their hometown" now,i realize the only Reason why you Believe chara is evil is because of your own headcanons that arent even explicitly stated to be canon,youre a pretty desespearte case. And we can just use chaara's own line describing their plan as their common plan with asriel to proove that they had no ulteriour motive besides freeing the monsters because otherwise they would call it "my plan"but no,they say that their plan was thesame as asriel's one,per say how easily the common idea of chara wanting revenge can be debunked " Actually it is still easier to label them evil for what they has done before Frisk got into Underground. What you are talking about - that's just a bonus." actions like ya know,being described as the future of humans and monsters,playing with asriel etc... @THA "As Rafip poined out, we spared more than half of the monsters in the underground. Possibly more, if you take into consideration that there's actually 20 of every Ruins type enemy in the Ruins (You can kill 20 Froggits, 20 Whimsums, 20 Loox.. The kill count is the number of kills before the monstrrs go into hiding) The world isn't pointless yet, Chara. There's still 218 living monsters. At least." " for chara its pointless because you proved to them that its kill or be killed and so as chara says the world's destruction is the "consequnece"of your actions in the geno run " As the intro shows, Chara tripped-They didn't jump. Chara's just a kid-They know that alone, if they tried to fight off the humans, they'd be killed" how the heck does it matter??This is outr of question,what matter is the Reason why they climbed the mountain at first place,the one where eople are said to dissapear.heck flowey in the geno run even says that chara already tried to "erase themself"from existence and he's cleraly not talking about the buttercup suicide as they died to fuse with asriel and not to "erase themself" "So, they wanted to go meet the monsters, who have the power to absorb a human SOUL. This would lead up to thier plan.. Well, the second half of it, at least-They were still missing the first half." stop to mislead people like that because now youre ading additional background thats never never implied in the game,theres no indication that they veen knew that the monsters were trapped in the undergroubnd . 3If you think they decides on this afterwards, and it wasn't premeditated, than answer me this:Why did they wish to return to the golden flowers from their village? Didn't they hate the village? Really, I see this is evidence that this was in fact premeditated. 3" chara LOVED the golden flowers as you can notice by the fact that they Always draw the golden flowers and they were only present in their village back then,so they likely took their body to put it rest it on the golden flowers. AND THATS' a common misconception actually:chara never asked the monsters to bring their dead body on the surface but to SEE the flowers fromtheirvillage village and a dead body cant see anything,this is why monsters says that this wish was impossible to accomplish Something they wouldnt say if they knew it could be realized when chaarar&a will die "Together, we eradicated the enemy, and became strong." Now, I don't say that Frisk/Player is not to blame at all for this run-They are! After all, it is true that we're killing more than 100 monsters! It's just we can't say Chara is not evil just because the player is. It's exactly as Chara said, they did it together." chaara perhaops provided the kill count and killed 3 last monsters but the player is still the one responsable for the world's destruction and they clready doesnt blame you to manipulate you for you to give up your soul because they still accuse only frisk for the second genocide world's destruction "That's because the Worn Dagger has significantly less ATK than the True Knife. The real mystery is why the ATK changed.. Not only that, there are boxes that only exist in a Genocide Run, like the one in the Judgement Hall. What is going on? ...This is why Chara changes their stance. The Worn Dagger is only worth 15ATK, compared to more than six times that as the True Knife. Saying that 99ATK is a weapon but not 15ATK is completely justified"" are you really that dumb,?THE TWO ARE THE EXACT SAME ITEM and that you can find in the exact same place,toby even said that real knife doesnt exist in undertale,chara only SEES IT as a knife in the geno run because youre in a mission to kill for power and erase the world